CCG in media spotlight as Starmer visits China

Henry Huiyao Wang and Zichen Wang gave interviews to BBC, Channel 4 News and Al Jazeera as the British prime minister pressed a reset with China.

British Prime Minister Keir Starmer arrived in Shanghai on Friday, after meetings in Beijing aimed at resetting ties between Britain and China.

Meanwhile, CCG President Henry Huiyao Wang and Deputy Secretary-General Zichen Wang gave broadcast interviews on the visit to the BBC, Channel 4 News, and Al Jazeera.

Henry Huiyao Wang live on BBC

BBC Anchor

And joining me for more on this is Wang Huiyao, founder and president at the Center for China and Globalization and former counsellor at the State Council of China. Huiyao, thank you for your time. As we’ve seen, China has been hosting many Western leaders lately. How does it see the UK and Prime Minister Starmer?

Henry Huiyao Wang, President, Center for China and Globalization

Yes, I think the Prime Minister Starmer’s visit to China has signalled a huge turning of the page. Also, given the beginning of this year, we see an enormous transformation going on in the world. So it’s no longer China versus the West or the West versus China. Countries have to follow their own merits, their own economic benefit and also overall interests. So I think you see a parade of Western leaders coming to China. We had a French President, Macron, and we had the Canadian Prime Minister, David Carney. And of course, with the Finnish Prime Minister still in town. And now we are having the Prime Minister Starmer coming here. This is great.

So these signals no longer force a choice be made. It also reset the high-level diplomatic ties and the high level of cooperation between the UK and China. And also given the turbulence in this changing world, the strong backing of multilateralism, the role that the UK can play and China can play together would be significant.

I think China will be the new anchor for this global economic stability, which makes 30% of global GDP growth. And the UK business and the UK government cannot neglect that. So this is probably a great time, after eight years of isolation and icing age. Now it’s taking steps to greatly improve relations. That is also a global trend and a market trend. It also shows how persistent and resilient China is in terms of economic growth, and also in multilateralism, which China sticks to.

BBC Anchor

And you mentioned that China could be a global anchor. Is China then trying to peel away these traditional sorts of allies of the United States from the United States towards China?

Henry Huiyao Wang

I think China doesn’t have to appeal to them in this way. China pursue an economic globalisation strategy. China has done so many things, such as the RCEP, the Belt and Road and all the other economic promotion in BRICS and SCO and many others. That’s a contrast of those over-securitisation and overall alliance. And now, even for that NATO alliance, we see cracks there as well. And so people are starting to realise: what’s the point? Shall we follow this China versus the rest approach, or shall we have a diversified individual strategic autonomy approach?

So the UK is one of the global leaders in early globalisation. And now it sees the global system is really under enormous threat and disruptions. So it has to really work with China. China is the anchor and, of course, the new equaliser of the global system. I think this is a great momentum we are seeing after so many Western leaders just in the last two months, out of the G7 leaders, the G4 leaders have already come. So we’re going to see probably also the German Chancellor Merz coming next month. So that’s really good news.

The UK and China have so much in common. The UK has produced over 1 million Chinese student alumni who are based in China. We have seen the tourism, all those new things, economic, financial services, education, you name it. I also see the tourism industry is going to boom with the new visa relaxation from China, which all the other European countries are enjoying. So I see an enormous potential between the UK and China, with 50 business leaders coming with Starmer this time. I’m sure that this new mechanism that we’re going to create new sentiment on the China-UK relations.

BBC Anchor

Huiyao, we’ll have to leave it there. But thanks very much for your perspective. Appreciate speaking to you as always. Wang Huiyao, Founder and President at the Center for China and Globalization.

Zichen Wang live on Channel 4 News

Channel 4 Anchor

Now it is almost 4 a.m. here in China, and heroically, I must say, I am joined by Zichen Wang, who is the founder and editor of the English language politics and business newsletter Pekingnology, which is quite hard to say at this time of the night. Why does China care about Britain? I mean, after all, the amount of trade is not really that big for China.

Zichen Wang, Deputy Secretary-General, Center for China and Globalization

Well, thank you for having me. Firstly, I think the United Kingdom as a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council, it is, for a very long time in the Chinese understanding of the world, the second largest power in the world with a lot of history. It is still very relevant in today’s world. And, it holds a very special place for China.

Channel 4 Anchor

Now the Brits have been utterly charmed. You know, they went into their meeting with President XI and, you know, he chatted about football and Dickens and and their cock a hoop. I mean, has he just kind of worked out how to keep, you know, how to sweeten them up?

Zichen Wang

Well, I’m sure this is an historic visit. I think he personally used that word. He is the first prime minister to visit China after eight long years. And he met President Xi. He met Chinese Premier Li. And businesses have a lot of agreements. From the press reports I’ve read so far, a lot of concrete results. Yes, I think so far it’s very successful.

Channel 4 Anchor

Do you feel China has essentially won its its international campaign over many, many years to say to countries like Britain, don’t lecture us about democracy and human rights, let’s just talk money. And that’s essentially what’s happening now.

Zichen Wang

Well, I think one can look at the world, look at the international landscape from very different angles. And at this very particular moment, we are seeing a lot of changes in the world. A lot of countries are trying to, let’s say, de-risk themselves from the United States. And China is the second largest economy in the world, offering a lot of market opportunities and technology. And there are many more common benefits. Of course, there are also differences, I think it’s a great time to look for opportunities for cooperation and preserving the differences between the two countries.

Channel 4 Anchor

How keen is China to spend money in Britain, though, and to own intellectual property and businesses in Britain?

Zichen Wang

I think if there is a welcoming political environment, atmosphere, regulations many Chinese companies are very interested because the UK is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Although China is much larger in size, but the consumption power is huge and it has this certain sort of prestige in Chinese imaginations.

Channel 4 Anchor

And just briefly, I mean, there’s a small group of politicians in Britain who are sanctioned. Do you think China might drop that as part of this?

Zichen Wang

As far as I can tell, I think a few of them were sanctioned together with members of European Parliament a few years ago, and the sanctions on the European members of Parliament have been withdrawn.

Channel 4 Anchor

So this might happen, too. Zichen Wang. Thank you very much indeed for joining us and staying up.

Zichen Wang live on Al Jazeera

Al Jazeera Anchor

Zichen Wang is a research fellow at the center for China and Globalization. He joins us now live from Beijing. Good to have you with us. So does China want to invest in the UK, to the extent, at least that the UK seeks, you know? What advantages does China see in expanding its trade with Britain?

Zichen Wang

Well, thank you for having me today. It’s been less than 24 hours since the Prime minister has landed in Beijing and he’s still meeting senior Chinese leaders and will be more events. He will also go to Shanghai, to the best of my knowledge, there will be a signing of cooperation agreements between the businesses of the UK and of China and between the British government and the Chinese government departments. So I guess we will see more and more actual concrete fruits.

But back to your question. I think China is very interested in investing into the UK. For example, in the press there is a story about a major UK electricity company that wants to source Chinese technology, to lower the domestic grid prices. And there are many other areas where both sides can work. For example, China is a major source of international students in the famous Russell Group universities in the United Kingdom. There are a lot of actual benefits from the bilateral relationship.

Al Jazeera Anchor

Do you think the recent friction between the United States and some of its allies over things like annexing Canada, invading Greenland, or imposing tariffs? Does that give Beijing an opportunity for it to expand its relations, to bring some of those U.S. allies a little closer to it?

Zichen Wang

Well, I think you are mentioning some very crucial context. Prime Minister Keir Starmer is not the first Western leader to visit Beijing recently. Before him there was the Finnish Prime Minister, and before that there was the Prime Minister of Canada who made a spectacular speech at Davos. A little earlier there was the French President. We are looking at, the federal chancellor of Germany who maybe coming to China next month. So, yes, there is a wave of major Western leaders coming to China, and I’m sure they are taking consideration of all the major geopolitical considerations in the world. I think it’s fair to say everyone has witnessed the cracks are growing bigger across the Atlantic.

But for China, I’m sure China understands that, yes, there are cracks between the transatlantic relations. But that doesn’t automatically translate to, better relations between China and other Western countries. So China needs to stay friendly, stay open to continue with its reform and opening up and cultivate its relationships...[interrupted]

Al Jazeera Anchor

Okay, stay open, stay friendly. Stay open. But how deep does China want to stay with this, as you put it, wave of Western leaders coming to Beijing in expanding investments? You know, they take place over a long time. And if Beijing is seeing that these Western leaders are partly coming to hedge their exposure to a current, very aggressive U.S. administration, might China have put a question mark about how long-term any trade or investment relationship will last?

Zichen Wang

Well, my first response is that actually the political atmosphere is very important. That plays a crucial factor in enabling corporate leaders to decide where the business goes, where the investment goes. And secondly, China has a lot to offer. For example, it’s an indisputable leader in clean technology and, sourcing Chinese clean technology actually means you can manufacture your energy at home. So China has no way of shutting down the sun or stop the wind from blowing. So if you use Chinese made equipments, you can actually manufacture your energy here at your home without having to to rely on sea lanes to transport liquefied natural gas. So that cooperation will help strengthen domestic energy independence, domestic economic security.

And there are many other examples. Chinese EV makers are very good. And we have more BYDs on UK streets. And that’s the benefits the UK consumers will have from a more affordable, very good cars. So yes, I think there are a lot of benefits from strengthening ties between China and the UK and between China and other European countries.

Al Jazeera Anchor

Okay. Zichen Wang, research fellow at the Center for China and Globalization. Thank you.

Zichen Wang

Thank you.

Henry Huiyao Wang interviewed by Channel 4 News

Channel 4 Anchor

What do you think China wants from the relationship with Britain?

Henry Huiyao Wang, President of Center for China and Globalization

Well, I think China actually wants to maintain stable relations with all the big countries, major countries such as the UK, because the UK is the driver of the first generation of globalisation and the U.S. probably the second. Now China is taking up as a leader, at least in green globalisation. So I think in order to maintain the multilateral system, in order to maintain the post Second World War system, to make sure it will not collapse, China and the UK really have to work together. So I think in that sense, there’s so much motivation for China and the UK to want to work together. It’s no longer China versus the West or West versus China. It’s every country based on its specific interests.

Channel 4 Anchor

So it’s a purely economic relationship. And the geopolitics of each side may be very different.

Henry Huiyao Wang

Well, not necessarily. I think the economy is certainly a big driver. As Starmer said, I’m coming here for the benefit of the UK people now. But then, geopolitically, we are facing huge challenges. We see that Donald Trump’s second term has really disrupted the world in a big way.

Channel 4 Anchor

So what does China think of the way Trump is essentially destroying the institutions of the post-war settlement?

Henry Huiyao Wang

I think Trump is doing whatever he thinks is right. He felt MAGA is really his main objective because America is spread too far, too thin, too wide for the last so many years. And now it’s time to retreat and time to consolidate in the Western Hemisphere. That’s why Europe is becoming another target. Actually, Canada become a target. Greenland becomes a target. And Europe is a target. So in this situation, the world is falling apart. And then big economies like G3, China, the U.S., the EU, the UK have to work together to maintain the global order.

Channel 4 Anchor

Well, but what do you mean by the global order? You know, does China like the post-war world order of International Institutions of the United Nations?

Henry Huiyao Wang

Of course. China is the first signatory of the UN charter, and then China is a strong defender and supporter of the global system of the United Nations. China is the largest donor to the UN peacekeeping budget. China actually is the second largest donor of UN budget. And then the U.S. is pulling out or maybe delayed payment, while China just recently announced 500 million in support for the WHO. China is really willing to work with the UK and other countries to support and defend the existing system after the Second World War.

Channel 4 Anchor

But what do you what does China see as the purpose of the world order?

Henry Huiyao Wang

I think the Chinese leader, President Xi, has mentioned many times that we should have a shared future for mankind. We share the future of mankind is, of course, peace, prosperity, development, and also sticking to the UN principle, sovereignty and territorial integrity. So in that sense, we want to see the world as it is continuously. Of course, there are a lot of things that are not perfect. We need to improve, enhance, enlarge.

Channel 4 Anchor

You know, because some people see the world as transitioning into an era in which this is a time of strong men of Trump, Putin and President Xi. Is he different to them?

Henry Huiyao Wang

Yeah. No, I would not project like that. I do think that the old model of democracy versus autocracy is not really valid, because we also have a problem with democracy. We have a populism rising. We have a change in government. We have people being shot on the street in Western countries. Whereas in China, you know, we have the we have one party, but it has very consistently pushed one five-year plan after another five-year plan.

Channel 4 Anchor

But aren’t we in an era now where whether it’s Trump, Putin or Xi? These are regimes which can remove rivals, oppress minorities, and force their way into delivering what they want. Is there really a difference between them?

Henry Huiyao Wang

No, I think there’s a huge difference. I think what China does is totally different. For example, China has maintained a big solidarity and very united across the country in the last 40 some years. China hasn’t really started any war anywhere and is still largely a peaceful country.

Channel 4 Anchor

So although it might well in the next two years, but there are lots of military exercises. There are Chinese flights going into Taiwanese airspace. There was a drone that overflew very recently. So there’s clearly a militarised aspect to China’s ambition with Taiwan.

Henry Huiyao Wang

I think China will definitely put a posture of deterrence to the subject of any foreign intervention. But I think the priority for China is still to have a peaceful unification. And then this is a civil war. The civil war hasn’t finished since 1949.

Channel 4 Anchor

I mean, I’m making a slightly different point, which is in the past, people have criticised China for its internal human rights and for its external ambitions towards Taiwan. Now everyone’s doing the same thing. Trump is trying to take Greenland. He might be getting involved in Iran now Putin is in Ukraine. So, there is no moral high ground anymore. But China is the same, isn’t it?

Henry Huiyao Wang

I think it’s different. You know, what President Trump did was totally different. It was, you know, kidnapping a sovereign country leader.

Channel 4 Anchor

So what do you think is going on right now? Because we saw Mark Carney’s speech at Davos talking about, you know, middle-sized countries. We’re seeing a procession now of European leaders coming to China to say, we want to do trade. We want to improve relationships.

Henry Huiyao Wang

No, I think that basically we’ve seen 2026 is a landmark year of really a new paradigm shift because you know, an old narrative of China versus the West or West versus China is gone, basically.

Channel 4 Anchor

Do you think that is just about trade, or is it also about trying to uphold the postwar world order?

Henry Huiyao Wang

They are coming to China not just for economic benefit, but also to change their views, compare notes and how we can all together hold the world together.

Channel 4 Anchor

But, you know, because some of the China critics believe what you’re doing is trying to divide the West by offering trade and economic growth to countries who need it. And you are politically dividing the old alliances.

Henry Huiyao Wang

Instead of China becoming a rival, the U.S. may become a rival, going to invade Greenland and then maybe Denmark.

Channel 4 Anchor

But, you know, in one very important way, China is the rival, and that is in its relationship with Russia for Europe. You know, in that China is supporting effectively Russia’s war in Ukraine and helping it with weaponry. That puts China on the wrong side geopolitically.

Henry Huiyao Wang

So China doesn’t provide hard weapons or really advanced weapons to Russia if China did provide that. This war must have been won many times over already by Russia. So China is really still sticking to the middle line and has respect for sovereignty, but also calls for negotiation and mediation. China is willing to mediate and negotiate.

Channel 4 Anchor

But if China is so benign to the rest of the world, why is it so developing its military?

Henry Huiyao Wang

China’s military budget is only a quarter or maximum a third of the U.S.? It’s still very small.

Channel 4 Anchor

But it’s advancing very rapidly, isn’t it? And it has an ambition to match the United States eventually.

Henry Huiyao Wang

They are advancing that because they felt threatened, because you had the aircraft carrier coming to the Taiwan Strait, you had the American civilians plan coming to Hainan Island. You don’t have a Chinese military floating around Florida, the Caribbean or Hawaii.

Channel 4 Anchor

The assumption in Britain is that China is spying on us. And you know that there’s been big controversy over the new embassy and to what extent it will be a spying base. You know, what do you think of these criticisms?

Henry Huiyao Wang

I found that it was really fake news because, you see, we have such a negative relationship in the past number of years. And for any opposition or party working with the U.S. or with Western countries have to find a way to find something on China, really. For example, they are all bashing on Huawei, saying Huawei has a monitoring device or something. Everybody is getting out of Huawei, as the UK did. But so far, we haven’t had any smoking gun. We haven’t had any hard evidence that Huawei did anything or has a back door somewhere. No, no, nobody can prove that. And the same is true for the spy case that the UK dropped lately. You know, calling them a spy. But then they find not enough evidence either.

Channel 4 Anchor

Well, I mean, the group of people in Britain who are the biggest critics of China are this small group of politicians who have been sanctioned, some from the last government, but also, you know, some from other political parties. Isn’t that very unwise of China to have created these enemies who constantly criticise China? Why are they sanctioned?

Henry Huiyao Wang

No, I think, things will change, like China used to sanction Rubio. I mean, now, Foreign Minister Wang Yi talked to him on the phone. Meet him in meetings as well. Things can change. Like, possibly let bygones be bygones.

Channel 4 Anchor

So do you think those sanctions might be lifted?

Henry Huiyao Wang

Well, I think so, like in Germany, Bütikofer, the famous Green Party member of the European Parliament, has been lifted. I mean, we hosted the MERICS, who also been sanctioned. He came to my office. So I don’t think those are really going to be that long.

Channel 4 Anchor

And do you think the treatment of Jimmy Lai, who was a British citizen, is also part of this jigsaw? You know that the improvement of relationships with Britain might also lead to his release.

Henry Huiyao Wang

Jimmy Lai is also a Hong Kong citizen. He’s a Chinese citizen also. And if he violated the security law of Hong Kong or the mainland, he was subject to judicial process.

Channel 4 Anchor

So do you think that’s a separate issue? Or is it something on which improved relations with Britain might also lead?

Henry Huiyao Wang

I think it’s a separate issue because the you know, I think the British government and UK people will eventually understand, let’s have a prosperous, stable Hong Kong. It’s good for the interests of both the UK and China.

Channel 4 Anchor

And how does China see what’s happening in Iran now with U.S. forces right on the doorstep and threatening?

Henry Huiyao Wang

Yeah. So that’s something not only China sees, every country sees that and feels uneasy and threatened.

Channel 4 Anchor

But does China have an opinion on the killing of protesters in Iran, do you think, or does it say, however you treat your people is up to you? If you want to kill thousands of protesters, that’s fine.

Henry Huiyao Wang

No, I don’t think killing people is right. No, that certainly is not. China is not endorsing killing anything. China is always calling all the parties to calm down, you know, through peaceful dialogue and discussions. That’s always China’s approach.

Channel 4 Anchor

But does it even think it’s wrong?

Henry Huiyao Wang

I think China would not endorse any killing of people. I mean, casualties of civilians.

Channel 4 Anchor

But would it criticise it?

Henry Huiyao Wang

Well, I think China already said, you know, they want to calm down the situation. Everybody is restrained and constrained and does things. But the problem is that China isn’t like any country. Just go in and throw the bombs and attack a sovereign nation without any proper authorization of the Security Council of the UN.

Channel 4 Anchor

When you talk about world order, it is clear that Donald Trump is withdrawing from many international organisations. He’s pulling the U.S. out of UN bodies. Does the world order work if the United States doesn’t cooperate with it?

Henry Huiyao Wang

The thing is, all the rest of the countries, including China, should stand up now to really support the current system that we all have benefited from for the last 80 years. We haven’t had a Third World War because we have this system, even though it’s highly imperfect, it is. But still, we haven’t had a third World War.

Channel 4 Anchor

The other big shift that has happened over the last ten years is that in the past, the West would approach China with human rights and democracy as two of the big things that it wanted to talk about. These are things that are now weakened elsewhere in the world. Do you think that’s a good thing?

Henry Huiyao Wang

China never said it’s perfect. It’s always improving. China maintain human rights dialogue with so many countries. But the other thing is, we should really see the big picture. China has lifted 800 million people out of poverty. There’s no extreme poverty in China. There’s no populism rising in China. You talked about the democracy model. Well, we see the chaotic situation, yellow vests and all those populist governments surging to power, while China keeps the consistency and persistence in one five-year plan after another five-year plan.

Channel 4 Anchor

Finally, I mean, Keir Starmer is under a lot of criticism at home for coming here and for approving the embassy. And people say he’s kowtowing to the Chinese. What would you say to them about what is the prize that is on offer here?

Henry Huiyao Wang

If a country is doing so well and can be a strong partner economically, why should we always seeking problem with them? People realise that now. Even Western countries have the same system, and have so many problems on their own. So let’s not point the finger at China now. It’s not China’s fault. You know, all those things happening in the world are not China’s fault. And China, on the other hand, is a strong supporter of multilateralism. So when we’re pulling out of China is donating 500 million to the WHO, and China’s donating another 100 million to Gaza. Right. So in that sense, I mean, we feel the benefit. China is also a stronger supporter of the WTO, and the UK is a country based on free trade. It’s an island nation. You thrive on global trade. And if that fundamental principle is being jeopardised, who is going to support that? It is China with the UK. So we have to work together.

Channel 4 Anchor

And Wang, thank you very much.

Henry Huiyao Wang

Thank you.